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TIME: Almanac of the 20th Century
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TIME, Almanac of the 20th Century.ISO
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1990
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0205510.000
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<text>
<title>
(Feb. 05, 1990) Interview:Larry Kramer
</title>
<history>
TIME--The Weekly Newsmagazine--1990
Feb. 05, 1990 Mandela:Free At Last?
</history>
<link 05684>
<link 04282>
<link 02647>
<article>
<source>Time Magazine</source>
<hdr>
INTERVIEW, Page 7
Using Rage to Fight the Plague
</hdr>
<body>
<p>AIDS activist, and now victim Larry Kramer blasts away at the
Government, the medical establishment and the Catholic Church
</p>
<p>By Janice C. Simpson and Larry Kramer
</p>
<p> Q. Why have AIDS activists decided to target the Catholic
Church?
</p>
<p> A. The church is perceived as being behind the times not
only on abortion but also on sex education and gay rights. Even
though it's representing something that is thousands of years
old, every once in a while, you've got to give the machine a
lube job.
</p>
<p> Q. But wasn't it going too far when a protester destroyed
a consecrated wafer during a demonstration in New York City's
St. Patrick's Cathedral?
</p>
<p> A. We're not here to make friends, we're here to raise the
issues. We are an activist organization, and activism is fueled
by anger, so people should not be surprised when that anger
erupts in ways that not everyone approves of.
</p>
<p> Q. Is the right to protest any more sacred than the right
to practice one's religion in peace?
</p>
<p> A. If you're asking me to apologize, I'm not going to. We're
prepared to leave the Catholic Church alone if the Catholic
Church will leave us alone.
</p>
<p> Q. You founded the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power, or ACT
UP, which organized the demonstrations. What is it?
</p>
<p> A. ACT UP is a street-smart bunch of very courageous
scrappers. We have protests, which include taking over the
opening plenary session of the AIDS conference in Montreal,
blocking the Golden Gate Bridge and protesting endlessly at
city hall here in New York. We have telephone zaps where we tie
up switchboards. We purchased millions of dollars of tickets
when Northwest Airlines refused to carry AIDS people as
passengers, tickets that weren't paid for, of course. Because
we are gay people and have wonderful taste and can put on
wonderful shows, our demonstrations are usually very
theatrical.
</p>
<p> Q. Is ACT UP establishing alliances?
</p>
<p> A. Because we are for universal health care, we have been
approached by a good half a dozen unions, asking if we can
somehow fund and organize a consensus organization. Because we
are for the early release of drugs, we find ourselves quoted
by right-wing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation because
they're for anything that keeps government out of business.
Because the release of the drug DDI has been so successful,
Hoffmann-La Roche, an enormously conservative Swiss company,
has now called us and said, Let's talk about making the new drug
DDC the next DDI.
</p>
<p> Q. Wasn't speeding the release of drugs ACT UP's original
mission?
</p>
<p> A. The mission of ACT UP is to end the AIDS epidemic. I
think the reason everyone is coming to us now is that they
perceive us, quite rightly, as being able to fight the battle,
to carry the ball, to raise the issues and follow through.
</p>
<p> Q. But do you need to be so confrontational?
</p>
<p> A. Even more so. We perceive it as a two-pronged attack. We
send our experts in to negotiate with the Government's experts,
and at the same time we use our street troops as a threat.
</p>
<p> Q. Don't you worry about alienating people?
</p>
<p> A. Gay people have finally learned the terrible lesson that
we are always going to have enemies no matter what. So you
can't go through life being afraid of them. And that's what ACT
UP has finally put into practice: Don't run from fear.
</p>
<p> Q. You tested positive for the HIV virus just last year. How
has that changed your life?
</p>
<p> A. It makes life exceptionally precious. On the other hand,
you have nightmares, and there are many nights when you wake
up at 4 in the morning scared.
</p>
<p> Q. Were you encouraged by the report from Johns Hopkins that
bone-marrow transplants might provide a cure?
</p>
<p> A. We're always happy that research is going ahead,
obviously. But the press really did the world a disservice by
putting such an incomplete and unchallenged story on the front
page, giving, in essence, false hope to a lot of people. Even
if it worked, it would cost, minimum, $200,000 per patient, and
there are very few people they could do it on because it is
very hard to match up bone marrow.
</p>
<p> Q. What is the most promising research going on right now?
</p>
<p> A. One of the most interesting developments has been the
appearance of what is called CRIs, community research
initiatives, which are community-based treatment organizations.
We have found ways to set up in each individual community, with
doctors' help, tests that are free from Government interference
and can therefore work much more smoothly.
</p>
<p> Q. Isn't the Government funding some of these programs?
</p>
<p> A. The grants are peanuts.
</p>
<p> Q. But more people die each year from cancer or heart
disease than from AIDS, and yet the Government spends more on
AIDS than on them.
</p>
<p> A. I'm so sick of that argument. AIDS is a transmissible
virus. Heart disease is not. There is a new HIV infection every
single minute in this country. There is a new death every
half-hour. We found that Congress has indeed appropriated the
money, but it's not being spent, or it's being spent foolishly.
Someone has got to be put in charge. You need a Lee Iacocca.
</p>
<p> Q. Where is the bottleneck?
</p>
<p> A. The bottleneck is that George Bush doesn't give a damn.
We got the second inhumane, uncaring monster in the White House
in a row. The Government is spending half a billion dollars a
year to test drugs in Government research in local hospitals
around the country, but those hospitals don't have enough
patients enrolled in the drug trials because the Government
doesn't tell anybody that these trials exist.
</p>
<p> Q. Why, instead of setting up your own testing programs,
aren't you directing people into these?
</p>
<p> A. We're doing that too. We set up our own organization
called the AIDS Treatment Registry. It's an in-depth directory
of every drug trial that you can get into in this area.
</p>
<p> Q. Aren't doctors the ones who direct their patients to the
hospitals?
</p>
<p> A. Don't talk to me about doctors. I think doctors have
probably one of the most shameful records in this whole
epidemic, because they've known from the very beginning what's
going on. They have a very powerful union in the A.M.A., and
yet they've done precious little about exerting pressure.
</p>
<p> Q. Why has there been such complacency about AIDS?
</p>
<p> A. Well, I think that there is no question because of who
it's happening to. I mean, you can say all you want about
denial, but this is happening to black people and to Hispanic
people and to people who take drugs and to gay people and to
babies who are born out of wedlock, and these are all people
that a lot of other people would just as soon weren't there.
</p>
<p> Q. How have you sustained the intensity of your anger over
these past nine years?
</p>
<p> A. I have a lot of dead friends, and I think that helps fuel
my energy. I had a lover that I wrote about in my play The
Normal Heart, and I remember him daily. And now, of course, I'm
fighting even more for my own life.
</p>
</body>
</article>
</text>